[lucrezaborgia]

The violent Islam you know and love myotch? That's actually Wahhabism and if it weren't for oil, it probably would have never left the desert. Saudi Arabia works really hard on exporting their particular brand of Islam as the One True way to be a good Muslim.

Kinda like the IFB and other Christian fundamentalists.

Actually, that's the core tenant of fundamentalism: We have the corner on the truth and in its purest form!

[myotch]

And Shiite Islam, and Sunni Islam.

IFB isn't violent. Most religion works to convert others.

[lucrezaborgia]

Shiite Islam, in and of itself, isn't violent. The crap going on in Iraq was imported via the Wahhabis. Sunni Islam is not region specific and is more of a doctrinal stance than a sect.

[myotch]

I was thinking along the lines of the Shia revolution in Iran, if you can recall the US Hostage situation in the 70's. Saddam was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia country, and used an iron fist to consolidate abusive power.

It's all pretty violent and directly related to the different Islamic movements and denominations.

The main difference between Christianity and Islam in regards to government and society is that Christianity (post-Reformation) does not impose religious rule. Islam is defined in it's Holy texts as both a religious and political movement. Israel is a Jewish nation in name only, and has a fairly progressive and secular government.

[lucrezaborgia]

(12-16-2012, 10:10 PM)myotch Wrote: Christianity (post-Reformation) does not impose religious rule.

Horseshit. Christian rulers post-Reformation, for the most part, still ruled by 'divine right' and determined which flavor of Christianity their subjects would be. (see Peace of Westphalia)The destruction of pagan beliefs in the New World was also motivated by Christianity.

Quote:Israel is a Jewish nation in name only, and has a fairly progressive and secular government.

Israel also gives credence to orthodox Judaism in official religious matters. There is no separation of church and state there. The Haredi and other Jewish fundies are gaining political power while also refusing to serve in the military...but they are perfectly fine with secular Jews dying for their right to steal Palestinian land.

[lucrezaborgia]

Here is the other thing...a lot of Muslim terrorism has nothing to do with the religion in and of itself. Lots of rhetoric is used, but they aren't fighting for an imam or a specific mosque. There are very specific political aspects to the terrorism.

The revolution in Iran against the Shahs was not merely because of religion. Tho pro-American and pro-Western, the Shahs were absolutely brutal and ruthless and forced the people of Iran to be Western while helping the British and Americans loot the countries natural resources which, BTW, were sold way below actual market value. On top of that, the Shahs allowed outsiders to have monopolies on products in the country, completely destroying entire market systems. Even with all the fuckery, it was enough to keep the Shas in palatial surroundings and the people of Iran subdued by the secret torture police who were trained by the CIA. The Shahs of Iran had one concern, how to keep themselves in pampered power. Still wanna blame religion for the revolution?

The institution of a religious state was seen as an ideal answer to a crisis. The leaders who pushed for it gave idealistic speeches and teachings to the masses and many things were promised that were later rescinded. Many women supported the revolution because they thought that an Islamic country would be a more democratic one. None of the imams and clerics were pushing for women being under control. There was very much the same kind of cognitive dissonance going on that happens in Christian Fundyland and people didn't realize just how controlling the regime would become...but if you ask an Iranian today if they would rather the Shahs or the Ayatollahs they will pick the latter almost any day.

As to the hostage situation, was that really religiously motivated or politically? A group of students wanted to send a message to the US, which had a history of meddling in their country's affairs. The Ayatollahs capitalized on that fervor. Sounds like politics to me. Oh wait...I guess it's terrorism since the US was on the receiving end?

[lucrezaborgia]

Quote:Saddam was a Sunni leader in a majority Shia country, and used an iron fist to consolidate abusive power.

He did that for political reasons, not religious.

[Mominator]

(12-15-2012, 03:06 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote: I'd consider Islam to be a Christian religion because they profess faith in the same god.

I disagree too.

Mohammed is a Satanic replacement for Jesus who is the only way to God. The Bible predicted there would be many false Christs.

[squiz]

(12-17-2012, 09:11 AM)Mominator Wrote:

(12-15-2012, 03:06 PM)lucrezaborgia Wrote: I'd consider Islam to be a Christian religion because they profess faith in the same god.

I disagree too.

Mohammed is a Satanic replacement for Jesus who is the only way to God. The Bible predicted there would be many false Christs.

There are some Muslims who think almost the same about your religion. Why are you right and they wrong?

[Jeremy C]

(12-17-2012, 10:51 AM)squiz Wrote: There are some Muslims who think almost the same about your religion. Why are you right and they wrong?

There are Muslims who think Christianity promotes Mohammed as a Satanic Messiah...?